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Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:02 am
by bill
It may be of interest to compile a comprehensive and up to date list of Chalons with
the private separations, other than the Walch perforations (10 and 11½) and Harris
perforations (12½-13). There are a couple of the private roulettes in the Prestige
Philately upcoming auction for tomorrow* (a 6d pair and a 4d rouletted at Oatlands)
but many more varieties are recorded.

Detailed lists are found in Gibbons, Robson Lowe, Volume 4 and Tinsley's book but
are they up to date? Do all the varieties listed there actually exist? Perhaps a few
unlisted varieties exist?

Over to you.

* Public Auction 153 - Friday 12th February 2010

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:24 am
by Ross Ewington
Here are images of the items to which Bill refers in the previous post.

Lot 322
[attachment=1]lot 322.jpg[/attachment]
Lot 323 (with Ceremuga certificate)
[attachment=0]lot 323.jpg[/attachment]

The Prestige Philately catalog descriptions may be read via this link:
http://www.prestigephilately.com/cats.p ... ionnum=153

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:28 pm
by jorija
Here are some from my collection. All now sold, unfortunately.
The pairs are,I believe, what SG describes as the "Rough-Punctured roulette about 8, by J. Walch, at Hobart 1864" SG 51 (1d) and SG 52 (4d)
The 1d is, I believe, what SG describes as "Serrated perf 19" SG 79.
Hope the cat numbers are correct - I only have a 1986 part 1 to go by.
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:21 am
by bill
Perhaps jorija could state in detail what separations they are as per Gibbons.

This, and Ross's posting, form the start of an accurate checklist as to what
is really out there. The published listings may not be as reliable as we would
like to think. Possibly, some items listed don't exist as genuine and/or some
items that are genuine should be added to the list. By way of comparison, a
few Departmentals of South Australia in published listings have been shown
not to exist. Is this the case for Chalon private perforations and roulettes?

The most accessible listings are those in Gibbons, Robson Lowe Volume 4
and in Tinsley's book.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:54 pm
by jorija
bill wrote:Perhaps jorija could state in detail what separations they are as per Gibbons.
Certainly - sorry - I have now edited my post to include these details. For some reason an edit I did to include them yesterday failed to save.
Didn't realize this until your comments. Having a few issues with my Internet connection at present.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am
by bill
Many thanks to jorija for details of these stamps. We can fix up the Gibbons numbers later if need be.

As for the examples in the recent Prestige Sale No. 153, that Ross illustrated recently, the details are:

Lot 322

1863-71 Private Separations Roulette 8 6d dull lilac SG 55 horizontal pair, rouletted all sides & clear
of the design except at the base but Imperforate Between.

Lot 323

Imperf x Oblique Roulette (at Oatlands) 4d blue SG 91, clear roulettes at left & traces at right, cut from the sheet.

This will help to get an updated list started.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:31 pm
by Malcolm Groom
4d Chalon Oblique roulettes.jpg
4d Chalon Oblique roulettes.jpg (60.92 KiB) Viewed 5711 times
This attractive pair showing the oblique roulette perforation recently sold in an Apfelbaum auction in February 2010 for US$1750. Used at Green Ponds

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:32 pm
by bill
Many thanks to Malcolm Groom for putting up another image of private perfs.

Apparently, the oblique roulette shown is the "Oblique roulette 10-10½, possibly at Deloraine?"
as listed in Gibbons as SG 95 (2004) but it would be a good idea to say so explicitly. I have
just found the Apfelbaum website at

http://www.stampauctionnetwork.com/ba/1079137.cfm

and sadly, the details are incomplete (Lot 2727). The wording reads:

1867 4p Blue, Oblique Roulette (41), horizontal pair, VERY FINE

Going by eye, it doesn't look like the Oatlands variety, which is listed in Gibbons as
"Imperf x oblique roulette 11½ at Oatlands".
Of course, it is far too coarse to be the oblique roulette 14-15 at Cleveland(?)

Now here are some examples from the Professor Enrico Bombieri Collection sold by Spink
on 28 March 1999 in Melbourne.

{Incidentally, Bombieri won a Fields Medal for his mathematical work. The Fields Medal is one of the
top honours in this field, something like the Nobel Prize in prestige but doesn't pay as much.}

Lot 1106. 1866 imperf x oblique roulette 11½, at Oatlands, 6d grey-violet tied by clear "64", obliterator
on 1866 (26 Dec) envelope from Oatlands to Caramut, Victoria; the envelope with some light staining at
upper left.
(This should be SG 91a, according to the 2004 Gibbons.)

Lot 1107. 1867 pin-perf 5½ to 9½ at Longford, 4d bright blue with perforations on two sides tied by "2"
obliterator on 1867 front and small part back (faults) from Avoca to Launceston and showing large part
boxed arrival d.s. in red on reverse. SG 106

Lot 1108. 1868-1869 serrated perf. 19 at Hobart, 2d yellow-green pair (left stamp damaged at foot)
cancelled by dumb obliterator on 1868 (25 July) entire to Swansea and showing "PRE-PAID" c.d.s. in red;
the entire with long tear at foot (well clear of adhesives) and partially reduced ink notation at upper left.
SG 119

A scan of these lots is attached.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:54 am
by Kastas
i dont really know what is pin-perforated. Look at these stamps, the firts is dull vermillion (n 58SG in austrlia sg catalog), the second seems to be 57 (brick red) , is it pin perforated (91/2 or 10)?
Thanks for your replies

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:44 am
by Revenuer
Kastas Not pin perf sorry.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:48 am
by Revenuer
Just sold on eBay for £28
gsdg.jpg
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Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:24 pm
by Revenuer
A recent buy 1863-71 6d grey-lilac Oblique roulette approx 8 [SG 55]. Will put up a better scan when I get it.

I just wonder if it’s a forgery?

Your thoughts thanks panel.

Dave
oblique.jpg
oblique.jpg (26.46 KiB) Viewed 5022 times

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:57 am
by admin
I have a feeling there were some possible forgeries around on ebay 18 months ago that look a lot like the 1d posted by Dave. If it was possible to measure the stamp that might give an indication - ie, it may have been re-perfed loosing some of the stamp in the process.

Pete

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:27 pm
by Revenuer
Arrived today and thoughts welcome
t-ob2.jpg
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t-ob1.jpg
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Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:34 am
by Revenuer
Dated 31 Oct 1866
t-ob3.jpg
t-ob3.jpg (54.54 KiB) Viewed 4995 times

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:24 pm
by Jerry Weirich
Here is a probable example of the rare cross perforation. Bill Tinsley examined this stamp for me in the 1980's, and he thought it was the cross perforation (which is why I call it that). To me, it has similarities to the oblique perforations, but it does clearly shows the cross perfs (little X's) at the top right and some of the top vertical perfs in the middle (see enlarged scan). It is fortunate that this example has a complete vertical row of unseparated perforations.
Cross_Perforation.jpg
Cross_Perforation.jpg (119.45 KiB) Viewed 4693 times
Cross_Perforation_back_400X.jpg
Cross_Perforation_back_400X.jpg (42.24 KiB) Viewed 4693 times

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:12 pm
by Revenuer
Another for the listing.

SG 119.
perf19.jpg
perf19.jpg (78.81 KiB) Viewed 4639 times

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:44 am
by paulsozstates
Hopefully i have attached this correctly.

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts on what this is?

regards
Paul

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:09 pm
by Revenuer
Paul A straight perf 10 with washed off pen cancel nothing exciting here. Its on ebay at present.

Re: Private separations on Chalons

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:55 pm
by bill
A 2d Chalon wmk Large Star with top rouletted was in the recent Corinphila sale.
It has a certificate of genuineness.

This variety is mentioned in a footnote in Robson Lowe's Encyclopaedia, Vol. 4.