Tasmania 4d Chalon Head Stamp WMK Double Lined 5 Perf 12X11½

[dazeyez]

Hello members,

I was referred to this site especially for this particular stamp as stated above in the subject line of " Tasmania 4d Chalon Blue Stamp WMK Double Lined 5 Perf 12X11½ ". Since, I just started learning about stamps just a year ago, I came across this stamp; which came untouched in a page of Tasmania stamp page from Europe.

I checked the watermark numerous times and previously I thought it was a Double Lined Numeral Watemark of 2, but now I can confirm it is in fact Double Lined Numeral WMK of 5 (which corresponds and matches to that of New South Wales Diadem 5d Imperf Issue.

I hope some members can give me some insight into it. Thank you.

Images as below.

Tasmania page as it came


Tasmania 4d Blue Chalon Head stamp Front Side


Tasmania 4d Blue Chalon Head stamp Watermark Side (I had to use photoshop to enchance the watermark to be shown) Original way and thus inverted


Tasmania 4d Blue Chalon Head stamp Watermark Side (Now flipped the watermark and 180 degrees turn to show the proper watermark.



Tasmania 4d Blue Chalon Head stamp Watermark Side (Without much contrast to show the paper)


Comparing it with other Tasmania 2d Green Along side the above subject stamp (face side) in the Sunglight to show if there is any damage or alteration (not that I can see of)


Comparing it with other Tasmania 2d Green Along side the above subject stamp (WMK side) in the Sunglight to show if there is any damage or alteration (not that I can see of)


Large photo of Tasmania 4d Chalon Head (Front Side) to show better quality. Shown in Sunglight for the transparency of paper (so to show it's not altered)


Large photo of Tasmania 4d Chalon Head (Back Side) to show better quality. Shown in Sunglight for the transparency of paper (so to show it's not altered)


Finally comparing it to other New South Wales 5d Diadem Issue Watemark stamp with the 4d Chalon Head stamp shown above. Please do note that the Watermarks shown within the RED drawn line border is of Various different NSW Diadem Issue Double Lined Numeral 5 WMK and outside the Red Line is the 4d Blue Chalon Head stamps.


Any information, suggestions or any research is highly sought after. Thanks members.

Prabhu

[admin]

The only reference I can find to incorrect watermarks on Chalon issues is that the 1d has been seen with Lined numeral 2 watermark. I cant find any reference to a numeral 5.
Perkins and Bacon supplied all the paper for the Chalon lined numeral issues in 1857 I believe and they were printed locally. There was no other paper used for printing any of the 4d Chalon issues, which were replaced in 1870 by the Sideface issues.

All the lined numeral issues were printed in Tasmania by various printers. Inverted and reverse watermarks are know.
The watermarks were prepared by attaching wire shapes in the form of lined numerals to the frames which held the wet paper. If other numbers, such as 5, were in production at the same time in the Perkins and Bacon workshops, perhaps a mistake was made and the wrong numeral attached to the paper making frame. This is all highly speculative on my part !
Hopefully someone will be able to shed some light on this.

Pete

[dazeyez]

Thanks a lot Peter,

I have shown the photo above very clear and as far as I can see it hasn't been manipulated in any way, though I have read some articles of fake watermarks for New South Wales issues. Yet at the beginning of such technology I believe a genuine mistakes could have occured as a proof perhaps or for some obvious reason.

Besides the perforations being trimmed (and as far as I can see it's a single lined perforations), there is no sign what so ever, including design, the front face, paper, stains or creases or even a tiny tear in the stamps which strongly suggest it has not been altered in any way (my personal opinion and like I said my amateur knowledge is not good enough to judge though). Yet, I believe even for the stamp to be proved as a forgery or altered watermarks, there needs to be a scientific proof to that. In this case which I hope it's not.

But thank you for your reply. I would be really interested to get it certified or something similar. I hope you can assist me. If you need further photos or any other information please do not hesitate to contact me. And other members opinions is always welcome. No harm in learning from the experts.

Than you again.

[admin]

Sorry but the TPS does not offer an expertising service. The closest service I know of is offered by the Royal Philatelic Society of Victoria http://www.rpsv.org.au/expert-committee/ . Its not exactly cheap at $100 per certificate. They offer this service for Tasmanian stamps, amongst others.There are other options but I dont believe anyone will offer such a service free of charge.
The TPS is interested in new discoveries though and I hope someone can shed some light on your watermark question.

Pete

[admin]

Its hard to tell from your images but the possibility that this is a forgery would have to be an likely option.
Unless someone can shed more light on this I dont think its possible to reach any definite conclusions without a close physical examination, sorry to say.

[dazeyez]

I agree 99% chances are this is a forged stamp. But uet nothing to suggest it with naked eyes, besides the trimmed perfs( i which case many rare stamps has some sort of defects)

I am sure with all the invention of science and latest equipements and tools at our disposal, an organisation and expert committee can point out the reasons as to how it has been forged.

But, if I was a forger ( for an instance), amd if I can do so clean job of perfect forgery, why would I waste my hours if not days, forging a stamp which is almost impossible to believe. Why take that big risk; rather why not make a forgery which is believable, like use Double lined 1 or Double lined 2 Numeral watermarks, instead of New South Wales.. It completely doesnt make any sense. I mean I would be scared to death, as the penalty for forgeries during those period, I believe mudt be pretty harsh.

As well as this stamp was amo.gst an untouched page of Tasmania, may be which hasmt seen the light for decades, if not 1 century. If it was a seperate stamp and someone checked it( a person woth knowledge) he would definitely take this particular stamp out and research as it is a very out of place WMK especially for Tasmania Chalon Heads. Thus, if I were a forger I would most likely have used either 1 or 2 numeral watermark which is a possibility and also sensible and less chance of being caught. Doesnt make sense.

I am sure some experts here can suggest some opinions.

Thanks again.

[dazeyez]

I sent the above stamp for a certificate for the RPSV, and a got the stamp back with notes scribbled as rebacked

I took the matter in my own hands. I am seriously beginning to wonder are all philatelist seriously just after catalogues and money ? Seriously?? I am quite baffled.

The video where I have dipped the stamp in almost boiling water where the water temperature definitely is not less than 95 to 100 degress and yet I cannot any sign of puffiness or split of the stamps.

Wow! If I was one of the so called experts, I would be ashamed to comment forget about even scribbling it as opinion when clearly this stamp has not been rebacked as when shown to David Benson and other members of the Phila House.

And now the below video makes it clear. Does the RPSP even test the stamp? or even bothered to really have a look at it. The opinion came scribbled in a paper as rebacked and reperfed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgq4tT ... e=youtu.be

so now I wonder if this stamp is not verified as not rebacked, may be the next opinion will be like we got to burn it in the fire at a temprerature of 1500 degree and see if it is infact an intact and genuine stamp ?

Shame!!! the stamp community seems to be surviving on an organizations opinion rather than scientific tests.

And I thought since this is a Tasmania Stamp and what better than this site for some opinions or any other sensible replies!! I cannot believe this.