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4d Courier Question

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:23 am
by Jerry Weirich
The 4d Courier pair shown below sold on ebay last year (not to me). It has a non-Tasmanian (maybe fake) cancellation. Can anyone tell me if the item is genuine? I understand Jeffrey forgeries are well done but I don't know how to distinguish them. Thanks.
4d pair not Tas cancels - Copy.jpg
4d pair not Tas cancels - Copy.jpg (54.3 KiB) Viewed 3373 times

Re: 4d Courier Question

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:21 pm
by Andy
Hi Jerry

Here’s an image of a Jeffreys Courier, a quick comparison clarifies they’re certainly not his forgeries (also, Tinsley states Jeffreys Couriers only appear as singles, never as joined pairs):


Jeffreys Forgery (57).png
Jeffreys Forgery (57).png (89.75 KiB) Viewed 3342 times


Still, matching this pair, size for size, with authentic Couriers reveals an unexpected difference in spacing. In the following image, the top pair (genuine) appear just a little further apart than the pair in question, which are seen underneath:


Courier Pairs.png
Courier Pairs.png (476.05 KiB) Viewed 3342 times


Due to this spacing, you would question their authenticity, especially given your thoughts regarding the cancellations.

(NB. Spacings are of course the same for both Plates I & II)

Re: 4d Courier Question

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:13 am
by Jerry Weirich
Andy -- Thanks for the information and the scans. In addition to the stamps, the fake barred numeral cancel 57 is also very interesting. May I have your permission to download the scan of the Jeffrey's forgery for my further study. Thanks, Jerry

Re: 4d Courier Question

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:01 pm
by songenaz
Hi Jerry,
are you able to say what is distance between the two stamps you mentionned ?

Thanks
Laurent

Re: 4d Courier Question

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:43 pm
by Andy
Hi Jerry

The Jeffrey Courier image came from Grosvenor Auctions historic sales website, so I would think there should be no problem in using the image under ‘fair terms of use’, although the image perhaps needs to be referenced, I include the link here:

http://www.grosvenorauctions.com/auctio ... :+Tasmania

Scroll down to sale number 21: Item 1174 (the item is incorrectly described)


There are also 2 images of cancelled Jeffrey Couriers here on the bb from a post back in 2009 by Roger Kinns, for ease of access, use the following link:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=146&p=541&hilit=dum ... 53+57#p541

In addition to the fake cancellation numbers mentioned in the above thread, I’ve also seen images of Jeffrey 4d.Couriers with forged cancellations of 32 and 65.

Re: 4d Courier Question

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:03 pm
by Jerry Weirich
Andy -- Thanks for the reference information. Interesting about the additional BN cancels on the forgeries. Definitely worth more study.

Laurent -- I don't own the pair and don't know the distance between the stamps. Sorry.