London printings of Sideface and Plate Numbers

[bill]

It may be useful to revisit the topic of the plate numbers on the 1d and 2d London printings
of the Sideface issues from 1878 onwards.

It is well known that De La Rue put plate numbers on the plates they made of the Sideface issues.
(See Basset Hull (1890) and Tinsley (1986) for details.) The plates made before 1878 (for 1d, 2d,
4d, 10d, 3d, 5/-, 9d in that order) also had current numbers. The same is true for the 8d of 1878
and the Platypus keyplate but the 1d and 2d London prints had only plate numbers.

This query is focused on the London prints of 1878 onwards, not the local printings.

On rereading Basset Hull and Tinsley, we learn that examples of Plates 2, 3 and 4 are known
on the 1d and 2d London printings (which were all perf 14). Plate 4 is perhaps the most
frequently (?) seen on the 1d and 2d. Have readers of this BB seen Plates 2 and 3 on the
1d and 2d London prints?

Tinsley stated that Plate 1 is recorded on the 1d London print and Basset Hull had recorded a
Plate 1 on the 2d London print. Have readers ever seen these items?

There has long been an aura of mystery surrounding the plate numbers on the 1d and 2d and
several prominent writers have tried to clarify matters with perhaps limited success.

Some scans of these plate numbers would be worth adding to this BB.

[Revenuer]

Not London Printings [no wing margins] but still printed from the De La Rue plate

scan0039.jpg (114.28 KiB) Viewed 3233 times

scan0040.jpg (113.46 KiB) Viewed 3233 times

[Revenuer]

A few more for you Bill

scan0034.jpg (35.78 KiB) Viewed 3232 times

scan0034a.jpg (29.09 KiB) Viewed 3232 times

scan0035.jpg (93.89 KiB) Viewed 3232 times

scan0035a.jpg (58.12 KiB) Viewed 3232 times

[Revenuer]

Some other values

scan0013.jpg (110.97 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0016.jpg (114.06 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0022.jpg (102.29 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0023.jpg (134.67 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0024.jpg (97.39 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0025.jpg (105.27 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0027.jpg (143.3 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0041.jpg (93.45 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

scan0045.jpg (114.23 KiB) Viewed 3231 times

[bill]

To Dave (aka Revenuer)

These examples are mouth watering. Thanks for putting them up.

Incidentally, the Halfpenny surcharge on the 1d Plate 3 is still on a
London printing, probably obtained some time in 1888. Only the
surcharge was a local job, done in Hobart.

We need to see the 1d Plate 4 (like the shown by JS in Canberra last
weekend) or a similar example as it is not especially rare.

Tinsley claims that the 1d and 2d London prints are all known with
Plates 2, 3 and 4. Can this claim be substantiated? So far we have
1d Plate 3 and 2d Plate 4 on the BB. The 2d Plate 2 imperf shown on
this BB may be a reprint from the 1870 plate, not the 1878 plate.

A 2d Plate 3 would be a nice addition.

[Malcolm Groom]

Owen Ingles has written something in the past about DLR plate numbers and was tracking the sequence across all DLR printings for British Empire countries. There were some 'missing' numbers which he was seeking. I can hopefully locate the article. Some of the numbers included the Platypus plates as I recall

[Revenuer]

Bill the 2d control number 2 imperf, is a proof on Crown CC paper

[Revenuer]

Found this pic of Control No 4.

Lets not mix up our Plate Numbers from Control Numbers.

It is my understanding that the bullseye numbers are Control Numbers and the boxed numbers are the Plate Numbers. Please correct me if i am wrong.

4.jpg (25.39 KiB) Viewed 3207 times

[bill]

In my postings on DLR control numbers or whatever you want to call them,
I follow Robson Lowe's Encyclopedia Volume 4 (Australasia). The figures in
coloured circles are plate numbers and the figures in boxes with indented
corners are called current numbers.

For instance, the reprint pane of 5/- has plate number 6 at top and
current number 48 at bottom. In the same way, the reprint pane of
2½d on 9d has plate number 7 at top and current number at bottom.
And so on for the rest of the displayed items.

(These are all very impressive!)

Revenuer has shown a 1d plate 4 (his 'control number') in his last posting.

So far we have seen the 1d London print with Plate 4 and also Plate 3
(including the 'Halfpenny' surcharge of 1889) and the 2d London print
with Plate 4. It would be nice to see scans of earlier Plate numbers
on the London prints of 1d and 2d if examples have survived.

Thanks to Malcolm Groom for his comments on Ingles' article about
DLR plate numbers, especially for Tasmania. I recall this article but
will have to look for it again. Yes, he did have something about the
Platypus plates as I remember.

[bill]

It's time for an update on the London printings and their plate numbers.

The 1d Plate 4 has Jubilee lines as noted by Ingles in an article in 1979.
Other plate numbers seen by Ingles don't have Jubilee lines. He stated
that he had seen Plates 2, 3 and 4 on both the 1d and 2d London prints.

(This is from the article that Malcolm Groom mentioned recently.)

It would be nice to see scans of all these things on the BB.

[bill]

Is there an image of 2d Sideface (London print) with Plate 3 out there?
So far, we have only:

1d with Plate 3
1d with Plate 4

2d with Plate 4

Examples of London prints with Plate 1 or Plate 2 would be very interesting
(but please do not confuse with local prints from 1870-1878). The London
prints are of excellent impression and are perf. 14. These are the source
of some mystery ever since Basset Hull's day.