POST 1912 DATESTAMP INQUIRIES - ASK QUESTIONS HERE !!

[jimjamtwo]

Ross, I think it was this one (Magra, 1915), which Prestige Philately sold for $220:

[jimjamtwo]

I have quite a few cancels from closed post offices in Tasmania which I was thinking of selling; they range in quality from superb SONs to partial cancels. Here are three partial cancels from Barnes' Bay. This office closed in 1969. Would such strikes be of interest to collectors? Or do collectors hold out for full strikes?

[Ross Ewington]

Here are three partial cancels from Barnes' Bay. This office closed in 1969. Would such strikes be of interest to collectors? Or do collectors hold out for full strikes?

In my experience, collectors of Tasmanian postmarks (all eras and including barred numerals) are not usually satisfied with anything other than a clear and full (or nearly complete) datestamp impression unless it is of great rarity (but then, at a considerably reduced price).

When determining whether a postmark is suitable for direct sale or auction I consider the following in this order:
1) the town name is complete and clear;
2) the average known quality for examples of the datestamp (unfortunately, this knowledge has to be acquired through experience, e.g. full clear strikes of Oyster Cove Type 1 are very elusive and an "A1+" example may sell for more than 5 times that of an average 'collectable' impressions);
3) that the date of the postmark can be determined (this is very important for postmarks on late issues of the Pictorials and early Commonwealth issues, for example Crotty Type 1 dated up to 1911 is rated R but with a 1913 cancel is rated RRRRR !!);
4) that the postmark type can be readily determined (i.e. Types 1 through to 8)
5) it's current rarity rating ....... note that I regard this as the fifth step
and ask myself 6) if the postmark were in my collection, would I feel that it is important to replace it with a better example in the near future?

What I regard as inferior quality postmarks do sell on eBay and sometimes @ totally unrealistic prices but this would be mostly to collectors who are just commencing a Tassie postmark collection (or a Pictorial, Roo or KGV collector who noticed a major variety on the stamp that the postmark collector missed .... I saw that happen twice just recently!!). The sad thing is that when a beginner collector finds out they have been paying premium prices for very average material they may give up collecting Tassie postmarks ..... this is very bad news for the hobby and postmark specialist dealers such as myself.

I hope that this information is of assistance.

[jimjamtwo]

Thanks for the comments, Ross! I've duly trashed the Barnes Bay cancels - it seems no one will want them.

BTW is there anywhere onine I can find a presentation of the 8 different cancel types?

[Ross Ewington]

... is there anywhere online I can find a presentation of the 8 different cancel types?

Not to my knowledge but when I get a chance, I'll try and get my article "Tasmanian Steel Circular Datestamp 1913-1988"
published in The Courier No.9 (March 1989) uploaded to the main TPS website at http://tps.org.au

A complete listing is also available in both volumes of "Tasmanian Hand Cancellations 1913-88" by J. Avery & J. Hardinge. These
books are now long out-of-print but can often be found in auction listings. Many philatelic societies in Australia that maintain a library would
probably have copies for loan to members. Some philatelic libraries would also have a copy of The Courier No.9 with my article re datestamp types.

P.S. the most 'current' list with rarity ratings on the Tasmanian Pictorial stamps plus a description of Types 1 to 3 datestamps, the book that
you require is "The Pictorial Stamps of Tasmania" by K.E. Lancaster (RPSV, 1986). Second hand copies can often be found without too much
of a wait on the internet; new copies may be obtained from philatelybooks.com (Prestige Philately) at
http://www.philatelybooks.com/show_book ... 1&catid=98

[admin]

The TPS has up-loaded a rarity rating list for CDS on pictorials here. http://www.tps.org.au/PDFs/Pictorial%20 ... Nov-09.pdf Its the Lancaster list with a few amendments and additions. Its available for anyone to download. Important note: the ratings only apply to date stamps on Tas Pictorials up to around end 1912-early 1913 ( the actual cut-off date is a topic of much debate !). May of these date stamps continued in use well into the commonwealth period from 1913( on commonwealth stamps) and their rating will generally be quite different to that of the State period pre-1913)

[Ross Ewington]

Its the Lancaster list with a few amendments and additions. Its available for anyone to download. Important note: the ratings only apply to date stamps on Tas Pictorials up to around end 1912-early 1913 ( the actual cut-off date is a topic of much debate !).

To read and/or (hopefully) add to this debate, please follow this link ....http://tps.org.au/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=113

[jimjamtwo]

Thanks for the information, Ross, but I don't have many datestamps on pictorials - most of my collection is on the 2d Jubilee issue of 1935, which is why I've been posting in this thread.

BTW, I have good-excellent strikes from the following closed post offices. I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know whether any of them are particularly rare. (On this subject, did you notice that a Tasmanian datestamp - Pass River - just sold for about $380 on Ebay? I'm wondering if this is a record price for an Australian datestamp, at least a 20th century one.)

Anyway, here's my list: Fitzgerald (cl. 1944); Maria Island (cl. 1951); Delmont (cl. 1953); Derwent (cl. 1957); Wattle Hill (cl. 1958); Conara Junction (cl. 1959); Cullenwood (cl. 1965); Shipwright's Point (renamed 1965); Uxbridge (cl. 1966); Wattle Grove (cl. 1967); Taroona (cl. 1967); Woodsdale (cl. 1967); Musselboro (cl. 1967); Nugent (cl. 1968); Woodstock (cl. 1968); Dromedary (cl. 1968); Levendale (cl. 1969); Lunawanna (cl. 1971); Runnymede (cl.1971); Longley (cl. 1971); Waddamanna (cl. 1971); National Park (cl. 1971); Pontville (cl. 1973); Strathblane (cl. 1973); Eagle Hawk Neck (cl. 1974); Sandfly (cl. 1981); Colebrook (cl. 1986); and Melton Mowbray (cl. 1987).

Thanks for taking the time to look!

[admin]

James,
there are at least two postmarks from the Commonwealth period which have sold for over $1,000 in recent times - Cuckoo Valley and Springs - ( for Springs, a very late date in the 1940s and two extremely keen bidders at auction were the reasons - probably not normally worth anything like that figure). i think Pass River has sold previosuly for a higher figure - a better strike. Some CDS on Tas pictorials have well exceeded $3,000 at Tasmanian Stamp Auctions in recent years.
You have quite a long list of postmarks and I suggest you might find it worth while to look out a copy of Avery and Hardinge as mentioned a few posts ago to check your rarity ratings. Some of the strikes you list may well have more than one type in use during the time the cancels were applied and sometimes one type will be much scarcer than another, so its a guessing game for some of them when all thats known is the date. Personally, I am always happy to share information but I dont always have the time to do a lot of checking of reference books.



Pete

[jimjamtwo]

Pete, I wasn't actually expecting you to look them all up! I was just asking in case you recogised any rare ones off the top of your head. Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.

I'm not in the market for the two volumes just to look them up. The cost of the books might well be more than this cancels would ever sell for.

So if anyone notices anything there of interest, please just let me know.

[admin]

Thanks. I understand.
A quick scan shows you have Delmont. If correct, this is a 4R and only seen between '52 and '53. Its only known on telegraph forms, not postally used. I've never seen it. I am not sure what it would fetch but its rare I think. I am sure a few people would like to see a scan if you have one?
Not to say there are not other scarce cancells among your collection - some very common offices still issued rare strikes when the cancellor in question was seldom used or only issued for a brief period.

[jimjamtwo]

That's a pity, because I made a mistake with Delmont. It's actually Deloraine. You can barely see the fourth letter, but now that I've checked carefully I can see it's not an M.

This was the worst cancel of the bunch I listed, but I put it in the list because I thought it was Delmont.

Thanks for the information, though.

[Ross Ewington]

The current record for a Tasmanian "Commonwealth Period postmark was obtained recently by Tasmanian Stamp Auctions for a fine strike of GOLDSMITH Type 4 (5.11.2011 postal auction, Lot 434)
which achieved $1850 + 11% buyer's premium. I believe the earlier record was for a CUCKOO VALLEY which sold a couple of years ago for about $1300.

To view the GOLDSMITH postmark please use this link http://tps.org.au/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5& ... 3118#p3118

As Pete mentioned, it's difficult to find the time to look up recorded information ...one or three postmarks perhaps but not a stocksheet full. However, if you post images of the following I will give you an appraisal

Fitzgerald, Delmont and Musselboro.

P.S. a couple of those closing dates are incorrect and although some mainland auction houses include closing dates and name changes in every listing as if it's critical information needed to sell a postmark, the year of closure is not of great consequence unless it's a last day cancel in my opinion.

P.P.S. the CUCKOO VALLEY (as well as the PASS RIVER postmark that you mentioned) may be also viewed in the same topic as the Goldsmith pmk post.

[jimjamtwo]

Thanks for the information, Ross. Despite being a lifelong collector of postmarks, I never knew - until I stated buying and selling them on Ebay about 18 months ago - that they could ever be worth anything. As a child, everyone used to laugh at my postmarks, which seemed to most other kids a quirky, if not bizarre thing to collect. I didn't even know there were reference works for them until lately.

Now I'm starting to wonder if we are the most postmark-crazy country in the world.



Anyway, here's the Musselboro cancel, which seems decent, and my third-best Fitzgerald. (I have two that are slightly better, but they've been left to dry after getting stuck to one another.) It's not great, but at least, you'll be able to tell what type it is.

[Ross Ewington]

That's very nice Musselboro - the Type 4 is rated RRR

The Fitzgerald Typed 4 is unrated and collectors should expect to find nice clear strikes with only a little patience. Your example is below average for this cancel

Bad luck you made an error with the Delmont ...... I thought that you may have a 'discovery' ...i.e. a postally used example.

[jimjamtwo]

Thanks for the info, Ross. I'm surprised the Fitzgerald cancel is unrated, considering the office closed in 1944. But I suppose it handled a large volume of mail for some reason.

I'm quite perplexed by how some offices that were open for only a short time can have common cancels, while others can be extremely sought after.

[Ross Ewington]

Despite being a lifelong collector of postmarks, I never knew - until I stated buying and selling them on Ebay about 18 months ago - that they could ever be worth anything.. I didn't even know there were reference works for them until lately.

in my opinion, eBay is really not a good guide to the value of postmarks ..... common and poor quality strikes frequently 'oversell' and rare postmarks (when offered occasionally) often sell way below their true value. I think the PASS RIVER you mentioned above sold for about the right amount but then the vendor did get a 'realistic figure' from me before listing (I said about $300-$400).

articles and books about Tasmanian postmarks have been published since the 1930s at least ..... there's even a publication by TPS BB member David McNamee entitled a "Subject Index and Bibliography for Tasmanian Philately" (2004) with 27 pages of listings on postal markings alone ..... that's a heck of a lot of stuff on postmarks! Whether collecting or just selling Tasmanian postmarks, a good library is essential as is an ever expanding knowledge about the topic.

Now I'm starting to wonder if we are the most postmark-crazy country in the world.

Not quite ...... while Tasmanian postmarks have been collected 'seriously' worldwide for probably 100 years, there are many countries where the postmark collectors are just as passionate and have been 'at it' much longer; e.g. Germany. G.B., individual USA states, etc.

[Ross Ewington]

I'm surprised the Fitzgerald cancel is unrated, considering the office closed in 1944. But I suppose it handled a large volume of mail for some reason.

Fitzgerald used the Type 4 cds for about 14 years ...that's a very long time, even in 'Tasmanian years'.

I'm quite perplexed by how some offices that were open for only a short time can have common cancels, while others can be extremely sought after.

A few years of intensive collecting and research and it will all become much clearer ...that's what makes collecting Tasmanian postmarks so interesting and the collectors more
passionate than most.

[jimjamtwo]

"I think the PASS RIVER you mentioned above sold for about the right amount but then the vendor did get a 'realistic figure' from me before listing (I said about $300-$400)."

I was wondering how he knew what kind of opening price to set!

Can I ask for a 'realistic figure' for the Musselboro cancel?

"there are many countries where the postmark collectors are just as passionate and have been 'at it' much longer; e.g. Germany. G.B., individual USA states, etc."

I was extremely surprised to read this. I've been watching postmark sales (on Ebay) for some time now and I don't find this to be the case, at least for Germany and G.B. However, the "Completed Listings" search function on Ebay is extremely poor (many a sale cannot be retrieved within a very short time of the sale itself), so many items could well have passed me by.

To my surprise, I have noticed that Northern Rhodesia cancels often sell quite well!

Thanks for the information about the Fitzgerald cancel. That's not that long in Queensland terms! I find (from Cowan & Dell) that in some offices the same cancel was in use for up to 35 years.

I think some datestamps were never completely retired. I have a 1970 telegram with a Blackall datestamp that was retired from the mail in the '30s!

[Ross Ewington]

Can I ask for a 'realistic figure' for the Musselboro cancel?

Yes, you can but please contact me directly ...the purpose of this online forum is to support collecting, not selling. It would be terrific if you started collecting Tassie postmarks of course and then all the assistance that Pete and I have given you would be well worthwhile!


Regarding postmark sales on eBay, as I may have suggested earlier, it is far from being "the main place" where postmarks are bought and sold and is more often than not, a poor indicator of "the market". Many top level postmark collectors give eBay a wide berth due to the amateurish nature of many sellers as well as other 'difficulties' which you have probably encountered.

In my experience, the vast majority of serious collectors of Tasmanian postmarks like to deal with sellers who know a lot about what they are selling, readily provide accurate information (and lots of it) and are probably passionate collectors themselves

[jimjamtwo]

Can anyone tell me whether there was ever a post office at Ulyrreton or Palmoreton?

I have Tasmanian cancel on a 2d Jubilee (1935) with a placename ending in 'ETON' and these are the only two possibilities I can find, but neither place is listed in the PPA Post Office Reference Guide.

Or is there a placename I've overlooked?

[admin]

Could be Middleton or Tarleton.

Pete

[Ross Ewington]

Can anyone tell me whether there was ever a post office at Ulyrreton or Palmoreton?

How about a large scan? There are collectors using this BB who can identify partial cancels in a flash.

While the PPA list is useful, it is not as accurate and informative as that found in "The Post Offices of Tasmania" by J. Hardinge (A. Orchard editor) - 2nd edition published by Magpie Press in 1996. "You gets what you pay for!"

P.S. if you can't make out right away what the town name is on a postmark is it really "collectable"??

[jimjamtwo]

Could be Middleton or Tarleton.

Pete

Thanks for the suggestions, Pete! Tarleton was closed by 1935, so Middleton would seem the only contender.

What do you think?

[Ross Ewington]

Middleton Type 4a .... I don't think it can be anything else. Clear strikes which are complete or nearly so are not difficult to find from this era.

By the way, Tarleton was open 1891/1893 only and although it is possible that it was issued with a cds, no examples have been found.